In times gone by, it was forbidden to utter a word of darkness or talk about the influence that Darkness has on the world at all without being punished in some way for doing so. Times have advanced and the world has moved on. In recent years, Darkness has become popularized and in some cases even glorified by the media, and various others who practice elements of darkness without the knowledge or understanding of what they are truly doing. In this week’s transmission, Melektoth and Elinara bring us along an observational journey spanning multiple religions and time periods to demonstrate the wide acceptance that Darkness has found among the people of today. Take one more step into your Dark Ascent.
Melektoth: Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law. Welcome to our podcast. I am your host, Melektoth, and I am here with my wife, Elinara.
Melektoth: Today we are talking about, as the title suggests, the popularization of darkness. We're kind of curious where this is going to go. I just chose a topic that has been interesting me, and not entirely sure what direction it's going to head in, so we'll see as the podcast proceeds. But it's based on something I've been noticing. Just to give a little bit of background. Recently, and I'm sure a lot of you are familiar with these shows, but Elinara and I, we started watching this show, The Chilling Adventures of Sabrina, which is an awesome show.
Elinara: Yes, it's amazing.
Melektoth: I've been wanting to watch it for a while. It came out, I think-
Elinara: Didn't it come out in 2018?
Melektoth: I think last year, yeah. I had been wanting to watch it for a while. I heard some complaints from Christians, your usual things when anything like that comes out. Any time something upsets them, it kind of intrigues me.
Elinara: Oh yeah, of course.
Melektoth: So I was thinking, "Huh, I wonder what this show is about," because they were talking about glorification of Satan, and all this kind of stuff, so I was really interested in watching it. We started watching it a couple weeks ago, I think.
Elinara: Went and got through both seasons, which are 20 episodes in total, in a week. A week.
Melektoth: Was it a week?
Elinara: Not even a week. Maybe it was a week exactly.
Melektoth: Needless to say, we really enjoyed the show. It started off sort of contemplation for me, where I had been reading some articles from people who reviewed the show or were talking about what happened in the show, and all this kind of stuff, because I like to look up spoilers sometimes. Obviously the show is, if you haven't seen it, it's quite dark. I mean it's about witchcraft, which is nothing new, but it's in a very dark motif, I guess, where it's around Satan, and demons, and really dark subjects.
Melektoth: For a lot of the show, you don't really know where you're coming from with it. I know the first few episodes it was like, "Okay, who are we supposed to be rooting for? Do we want her to stay with her mortal friends, or do we want her to go to the dark side? What exactly do we want?" That was something that was, for me, what are we supposed to want here? But it's quite dark. I think it's interesting that it was produced by Netflix, that I guess the market is such that such a show can succeed and even thrive. I don't think you would have seen that a few decades ago, maybe in a fringe context, for a fringe sort of market. But for the mainstream where people are really enjoying it, and talking about it, so that was the first thing.
Melektoth: The other thing though, as I was saying, as I was reading these articles and people would talk about this, they would ... Silly little thing, but it's interesting. They would take on little affectations from the show. In the show, because it's all based on this religion about Satan, like Satanists, basically. In the show, they'll say, "Praise Satan," a lot or Satan kind of in the place of God with any kind of phrase. I can't think of any examples right now, but if you can, put them in.
Elinara: Yeah, I'm trying to think. "What in the name of Satan are they doing?"
Melektoth: In the name of Satan, yeah, that's right.
Elinara: What else?
Melektoth: So things like that.
Elinara: They would replace if you say, "What the hell," you'd say, "What the heaven."
Melektoth: What the heaven.
Elinara: It was like everything is opposite.
Melektoth: Yeah. These articles, these authors just to take on the affectation of the show would say things like this where you have, again, not fringe but the really mainstream article or an author saying, "Praise Satan," or things like that from the show. I'm like, "Wow. Really?" It sort of took me aback. I was just thinking how crazy that is that on a mainstream website someone can get away with saying that today and it not be weird or there not be an uproar about it or that person not be judged or whatever. It's just really interesting.
Melektoth: Then the other thing that happened, after that show we started watching another show called Lucifer, which is a totally different feel. It's not nearly as dark as Sabrina.
Elinara: But in a way it is though too.
Melektoth: Yeah. But it's also the popularization or the glorification of Satan or Lucifer, whatever. I was talking to my mother about this show, and she said, "Oh I love that show." She goes on and on about how she likes the show and all this stuff that happened and why it's so cool. She's like, "I love Lucifer." We were sitting in the car, I remember, and I kind of paused. I'm thinking, "What?" My mother is not dark. She's not. Darkness scares her. She's one of those cultural Christians. She prays. She doesn't go to church or anything, but she believes in God and blah blah blah, whatever.
Melektoth: For her to say, "I love Lucifer," with such enthusiasm just was so surreal that it just ... And I didn't say anything because I didn't want to ruin the moment, but internally I was thinking, "Did you just say that? Did you hear what you just said?" There were no qualifiers. She didn't say, "On the show." It was, "I love Lucifer." It was absolutely hilarious. I was like, "Oh okay. You love Lucifer. That's cool."
Elinara: I don't even know if she realized what she did.
Melektoth: I don't think so. I don't know.
Elinara: Because it was on TV at first and then it went to Netflix.
Melektoth: Yeah. She'd seen all four seasons. So yeah, she broke out with that and it was just so funny that she said that.
Melektoth: By the way, sorry if I sound a little weird today. I'm getting over a cold, so I'm still a little bit sinusy. So we're working it out, but I had to record.
Elinara: But don't worry. I'm okay, so you can just listen to me if you don't like the way he sounds.
Melektoth: Oh thanks. Yeah. I'll just let Elinara do the podcast.
Elinara: Hell no.
Melektoth: This was a really interesting thing that happened and it got me thinking. I wrote an email to my mailing list on Dark Ascent about this and I said I was going to do a podcast about it. But it just got me thinking about the popularization of darkness, because this is not the first time that I've seen this. It's kind of the most blatant, I guess, but I've read books in recent history about demons and dark things, and not demons in a bad sense, but demons where they're actually, I won't say good, but they're not bad. They're not evil, per se. So I read a lot of books like that. The idea of demons or of the devil or of Lucifer, I just noticed has become a lot more popular in the mainstream in the recent past.
Melektoth: I think it's intriguing because I don't think we would have seen this, like I said, even a few decades ago.
Elinara: If you want suggestions of those books, Kim Harrison wrote The Hollows series. There are demons in there that are not portrayed as horribly evil. I mean the main character thinks they are at first, but then realizes they're not. And then what was it? The Demons of Astlan?
Melektoth: Yes. Of A-S-T-L-A-N. The Demons of Astlan, where it was a really cool book about how demons were actually just trapped, captured souls who had been accidentally astral projecting or whatever. I don't want to give away too much, but it was a cool thought experiment because this whole world, not our own, but this whole world thought that these demons were just inherently evil, as people do. There was one newly-made demon who was trying to prove that he wasn't and all sorts of things happen. I mean people saw him with distrust because he's a demon. It was a really interesting series.
Elinara: Yeah. Those are really good books, series.
Melektoth: It's just fascinating because you really wouldn't have seen this even a few decades ago, I think. I mean obviously we had the Church of Satan, which started in the 1960s, and that helped. But it's still not mainstream. If you go out and say, "Yeah, I'm a Satanist," nine out of 10 people are probably going to be, "Oh okay," and kind of be uncomfortable with that. Just in general, it's not something you go out and say, "I'm a Satanist," and people are like, "Oh cool." I guess it depends where you live, but just in my experience, it's just not something people tend to take lightly.
Melektoth: Well, except when I got my latest tattoo, it's a sigil of Lucifer. I told them what it was because I wanted a certain effect or a certain style with it. One of the tattoo artists there, he was actually ... I think he was an ex-Satanist or was he ... I don't remember.
Elinara: No. He just was interested in it.
Melektoth: Yeah. He was familiar with the Church of Satan. We were talking about-
Elinara: We were all talking about it like it was nothing.
Melektoth: Yeah. But that's more of a fringe scene itself, I guess.
Elinara: Well, it's a tattoo parlor, shop, whatever.
Melektoth: But if you go into the mainstream and announce to the world, "I'm a Satanist" ... I mean, let's say it like this, you're not going to see a Satanist president or politician. I mean it's still pretty traditional. Even pagan you're not going to really see that. But people are going to be a little irked by that or unsettled by that, even still. But the fact that we have media today that portrays these things in a more positive light, I think, is really interesting. The question is, why is that happening? Why do we have a show about Satanist witches who say, "Praise Satan," and no one bats an eye? They're just, "Oh yeah, cool," and actually imitates them.
Melektoth: Why do we have a show called Lucifer that sees him not as evil at all, that he actually is a good person?
Elinara: He's frustrated at everyone for thinking he's evil.
Melektoth: Right. Yeah. Now, from one standpoint, this is sort of a relative thing because if you're a Christian, let's say, then your point of view is going to be that Satan is fooling the world into thinking that he's not evil at all and that this is all okay. So now it's the media's accepting this message. You get the point. You could see it in that way. But obviously I don't think that's the answer.
Elinara: It's too easy.
Elinara: Honestly, it's like a scapegoat.
Elinara: It's just too easy. If there were a hypothetical Satan that would tempt you, it wouldn't be that blatant. It would be a lot more, I don't know, subtle or something, I feel like.
Melektoth: It was interesting. A few, well, several years ago, many years ago-
Elinara: A few, several, many, which is it?
Melektoth: Ages ago, back when the dinosaurs roamed the Earth.
Elinara: That's why your hair is so gray. Actually, it should be grayer than it is.
Melektoth: Oh well. Quite a few years ago. I've been pondering this because I was coming out of a Christian stage and I'd been thinking about how relative this all is, because from my standpoint I was being freed from an oppressive religion and being able to see things how I really wanted to. I fully recognized that from a Christian standpoint that I had been led astray by Satan and that I had lost the truth and that I was going to hell or whatever and that I was just being tempted by the devil. There is nothing I could possibly say to refute them because from their standpoint-
Elinara: That's right.
Melektoth: ... it seems to be true. Anything I would say would only serve to validate their perspective. So it was an enlightening moment because I was thinking, "I don't think they're right. They think they're right, but I don't. But what can I possibly say to them?" There's nothing I could say. All I can do is follow my path, but I can't get into their world, their self-constructed world and say, "Yeah. You're wrong because A, B, and C." I mean I could, but it wouldn't work. In their world, that sequence of events makes sense. That reasoning makes sense. I get that because I've been there.
Melektoth: I've been there and I've thought in that way. I've believed in that kind of way and said that about others.
Elinara: Oh my God. I could tell stories.
Melektoth: That's okay.
Elinara: Really, we both could though.
Melektoth: Yeah. So I get it. That's the value of being ... I've been in so many different religions over the years that I can get it. I can almost argue for any one of them and tell you reasons why it could be true.
Elinara: The thing is if, and I'm not talking about fundamentalist Christians, and I'm sorry if you are fundamentalist and listening to this, because I'm about to bash you. But fundamentalist Christians are very stupid. I'm sorry. Okay. I'm really not trying to hurt people, but I've been around-
Melektoth: But they're stupid. I'm not trying to hurt you, but you're stupid.
Elinara: There is some fringes that are okay, or some groups that are okay. But I'm talking about the ones that are hyped on emotion, some Pentecostal churches, things like that. They have no clue about the Bible or anything. If you were to say something like what you're saying, they'd be trying to get the demons out of you. But if you talk to maybe a Catholic or someone that might be a little more open-minded, an Episcopalian, they're not going to do that. Because if you're reasoning all of this out, okay, I know what you're about to say. I know that you're going to say this and I'm reasoning it out.
Elinara: You're thinking intellectually about it and rationally about it. They would probably conclude that you are not, in fact, influenced.
Melektoth: I mean Catholics, I've seen-
Elinara: Some do. I'm not saying they don't.
Melektoth: ... Catholics who are just as bad.
Elinara: They can be.
Melektoth: The thing is, and I don't want to go too far in that direction, but it's sort of in the DNA of Christianity because Christianity believes at its core that there's only one way and anything else is a deception from the devil. I can't blame them for seeing it that way because their very religion tells them that's how it is. I mean the Bible says that if anyone else comes preaching another gospel that they are false. It pretty bluntly condemns them. So their own text tells them these things, that if anyone else comes and has another message that that person's false and deceived by the devil or even working with the devil.
Elinara: Oh yeah. That's the best one.
Melektoth: Can you blame them? It's like people say, "Those are bad Christians." No, they're pretty true to what Christianity was meant to be. I mean, I don't know. It's difficult. I mean-
Elinara: It is hard.
Melektoth: But I can see where they're coming from because I've been there. That's what I'm trying to say. But from another perspective, you see it in a different way. So again, from a Christian perspective, you can say, "Yeah, well, Satan is just deceiving the world, and it's," I don't know, "in preparation for the end times," or something like that probably.
Elinara: It's just such a simple mindset. It's too simple. It's too easy.
Melektoth: But why is it really? When we really look at why darkness is more popularized now, why is it? I think it still has a long way to go. There are still a lot of light workers.
Elinara: Oh God. Cringe.
Melektoth: Yeah. I was trying to put the cringe into my word ... who go around and try to say that only light is valuable and they try to shine the light and all this kind of stuff.
Elinara: They're almost just as bad as Christians.
Melektoth: Right. So you still have that kind of mentality. Paganism or in Wicca or in the New Age, this mentality is really big, so it's definitely out there. But yet, again, you can't ignore the trend that darkness is being more accepted and more popularized in some way. Again, why is that? I think part of it, actually well, a lot of it ... I've been talking about the eons. We talked the different eons in episode 18. You can go check that one out. I'll give you a link to that podcast in episode 18. But in episode 18 we talked about the old eon and the new eon, the eon of Osiris and the eon of Horus that we're in now.
Melektoth: I think this is ignored a lot, but I think it's important, that in the old eon was all about good and evil and this battle between good and evil and light and dark, because the sun was seen to die and be resurrected and conquer the darkness. You had this motif or this myth of the light conquering the dark and this grand battle between the two. In the new eon, you see that as illusion, but the risk is that ... And what a lot of people do is that they see the darkness as illusion and the light as the victor by default because there is no darkness. That's what a lot of people do. But the thing about that is it ignores essentially half the universe.
Melektoth: It ignores half of existence, because there is light and dark. I don't want to say good and evil, but that kind of conception of it, black and white, male and female, and so on and so forth. You have two polarities. I've talked about this. I don't think I've mentioned this publicly yet, so I'll talk about it a little bit. But there's a concept and equation basically in magic called zero equals two. I don't think I mentioned this on the podcast yet.
Elinara: You did somewhere, but I don't know where.
Melektoth: In the course and in the newsletters quite a bit.
Elinara: Oh okay.
Melektoth: I don't think in the podcast.
Melektoth: If I have, then whatever, but I'll mention it again. But there's this formula called zero equals two that Aleister Crowley liked to talk about a lot. Essentially it goes like this, that first there was void. There was nothing, which is zero, but as soon as anything existed, there had to be two. You can't just have one because, first of all, you have ... Let's say you have nothing. Let's say one thing pops into existence. Well, the moment that thing pops into existence, you have that thing and you have not that thing. You have the absence of that thing.
Melektoth: So if we have zero and then point A pops into existence, we have A and then you have not A. The only way A can be defined is by not A. The only way you can define what something is is because it's not that. It's not that. It's not that. So that's two things. It's a something and it's a nothing. So you have this balancing equation happening all throughout the universe as things pop into existence. You have the thing. You have the opposite of the thing or the absence of the thing. So everything comes in twos, in pairs, in opposites. It has to all balance out to zero. When you can see that, then it really makes sense. Zero equals two, because the moment you have anything, you have two.
Melektoth: The reason that's important is because you can't just have light, just by the very nature of that formula. You cannot just have light. You must have light and dark. If anything exists, if light exists, then not light must exist, and not light is dark. Darkness is defined as not being light. That's what defines it. In fact, there is an awesome ... For those who are in the Tao Te Ching course that's still ongoing, back in chapter two, it talks about how the opposites define each other. Long and short define each other. Good and evil define each other and support each other and all this stuff. You need all these different opposites.
Melektoth: So you need both light and dark. You can't just pretend one doesn't exist any more, because it's inconvenient or because it's whatever, and just to focus on the other part of it, because the part that you're ignoring will show itself again. Usually when it shows itself, it's not going to be pretty because you've been ignoring it. In psychology they talk about the shadow self a lot. This was the-
Melektoth: Jung did.
Elinara: Yeah, Jung.
Melektoth: So again, this is getting more popular. People are talking about you need to be familiar with your shadow self. You need to be okay with the darkness.
Elinara: In Shamanism, apparently, it's a huge thing, just from the very brief studies I've done. That's very important to work with your shadow self or your dark self and to not be afraid of it. The whole journey is facing it, so you're not afraid of it and realizing that really it's not what you think it is.
Melektoth: Right. Exactly. I think the new eon, some people say it's just about, okay ... I said last time, not last time, but in episode 18, the new eon is about the realization that the sun shines eternally, and it is about that. It really is, but some people look at that and say, "Well, that means that there's only light because the sun is light," and whatever. But what you're missing is there is that beyond the sun. What's beyond the sun? What's there when the sun isn't, or when you look beyond the sun? Because the sun isn't everything. When you look beyond it, there's blackness. There's darkness. That's what's left.
Melektoth: You have to inherently have both light and dark to really have anything. Everything is sort of a combination of these two. When you seek one and avoid the other, you're just imbalancing yourself. So that, to me, is really what the new eon is about is not that there's only light and not dark, that darkness was an illusion all along or something like that, but that there is both light and dark and they're both okay. Even in Thelema, there can be a tendency to shy away from the darkness, to only focus on the light and not be comfortable at all with darkness. I've seen that even though Crowley did quite a bit talk about darkness and about even Satan sometimes. I mean we talk about the serpent and the lion as part of the Gnostic Creed, which is Baphomet, which is an incarnation of darkness basically.
Melektoth: So Crowley did talk quite a bit about darkness, but a lot of people still try to ignore that part of it and just focus on the light and in surrendering the self and dissolving into the all, and that kind of stuff. That's cool. That's part of it. That's definitely part of it, but you can't ignore the darkness. I think we're seeing much more of a popularization of that now because it was way, way underrepresented. It was just people weren't really focusing on it at all. So now we have more of a focus on it. Now it's more accepted.
Elinara: I think eventually it will be even more accepted and Christianity is going to kind of disappear.
Melektoth: Probably. I mean all-
Elinara: It will be on the fringe.
Melektoth: Yeah. All the oldies on religion ... It takes time. Apparently what I've heard is it takes about a few hundred years up to about 500 or so for the old eon to really start to die away completely. But you do already see, and I mentioned this before, you do already see it where, I mean, church attendance is down. I'm pretty sure it's at an all-time low. At least parts of it are. Now granted, there are parts of the world where it's just people are really into it and whatever.
Elinara: In the US though ...
Melektoth: Especially in the US and in Europe and in places like that, it's just at an all-time low. There are more and more alternative spiritualities, more and more atheists, more and more just people have all sorts of different paths and fewer and fewer Christians. That's being more and more accepted. Now as that happens, then the old eon energy gets very defensive and starts to strike out. So you see almost more hatred from Christians because they kind of grasp on a subconscious level that their religion is slipping away and that, "How dare these people not honor what's true," and that kind of stuff.
Melektoth: It seems like the world, a Christian would say, "The world is falling into evil and all these things are okay now that weren't okay 100 years ago with a more Christian outlook." I mean homosexuality is legalized now. All these different issues are okay and Christians don't like that, or the strict ones, fundamentalists. But they see that slipping away, I think, and that's frightening because it's what they think is true. It's what they know. But already we about 100 years, a little over 100 years into the new eon and already, I think, you see this happening where we're not ruled quite so much any more by Christian ideals. It used to be the law was basically a reflection of Christian morality, here in the West at least. You just don't see that as much any more.
Melektoth: I think that's a really valuable change, but as it happens and darkness becomes more accepted, more embraced, more popularized in both media and spirituality and in psychology, as I said about the shadow self, I think that it'll really help the balancing out of things because, again, when you repress one side then that tends to really explode when it comes out, and that's not good. But when you can honor both sides, both the light and the dark, then you have more of a balance. I think that's really what we're looking for. So I think we're moving in a positive direction, for sure. Again, there are still people who only look at the light, only serve the light, and that kind of stuff.
Melektoth: But I think darkness is more and more important now, so I think some of the expression of that besides even just media, even the law of attraction itself, which I talk about quite a bit, is sort of an expression of that because in the light way of seeing things, desires as evil or as bad or as unproductive or whatever, you should just want to unite with the all or with the universe or with God or whatever and give up all your desires and just go off and be an ascetic somewhere. Now there is more of a focus on the material. Now obviously we don't want to do this to the exclusion. We don't want to only focus on the darkness to the exclusion of the light. Some people do that.
Melektoth: But now more people are focusing on material and saying, "Hey, what if it's okay to be rich or for me to have the things I want?" That is a more dark outlook because we're not just focusing on, "Okay, I just want to unite with the all and surrender and lose the ego and all this kind of stuff." I don't want to just do that. I want to actually have some things and actually have some nice experiences. We're accepting that more now, and we're seeing ways that that can happen through how we think and things like that, how we feel, how we focus on our emotions, and how we deal with life. We see how we're almost, I want to say, meant to have the things that we generally want to have as long as it is in the line with our true will.
Melektoth: That's a huge bit of progress, I think, because 100 years ago when there was more of the occult. When Thelema was getting started and things like that, any kind of magic for material purposes was sort of seen as black magic and evil. I've talked about that before. I don't know how much you remember that.
Elinara: I don't remember you talking about here.
Elinara: You've talked about it to me.
Melektoth: Yeah. Well, I didn't know if you remembered it.
Elinara: Yes. I do.
Melektoth: Crowley would talk about how any kind of magic for personal gain or whatever was black magic and was evil, not black magic as in, "Oh yeah, that's black magic and that's okay." It was black magic and that was evil.
Elinara: Isn't that weird?
Melektoth: Now, Crowley funnily enough was seen as the wickedest man in the world and was seen as evil by a lot of people, but he himself really did focus on the light quite a bit. It was funny because I came across ... I've been reading a lot of the Book of the Law, which is the holy book of Thelema or one of them, the main one. I've been working on memorizing the first chapter. One of the verses talks about light and dark. I can't guarantee you this is what it means, but I just found it really interesting. Basically the first chapter is from the perspective of the goddess, Nuit, who's the star goddess.
Melektoth: She's talking to Crowley. I'm trying to think which part of the verse I want to read off. Essentially she's talking about what's going to come in the future. There's going to be those, at least one person or several, who kind of finish the work that he started. But she says this, "All words are sacred and all prophets true, save only that they understand a little. Solve the first half of the equation. Leave the second unattacked. But thou hast all in the clear light and some, though not all, in the dark." That's chapter 1, verse 56. To me, when I read that, I was like, "Okay, so you have all in the clear light and some, but not all, in the dark."
Melektoth: At first, it sort of suggests there's stuff he doesn't understand and that's what she's saying. That's a surface interpretation, I think. But I was thinking, "Is it bad that there's some in the dark?" What if she's saying that he has all in the clear light. He's focusing on the light and some, but not all, in the darkness, which is he does focus on the dark a little bit, but not that much. Paired with, "Solve the first half of the equation. Leave the second unattacked." He focused on the light. The light is the first half of the equation. The dark is the second. He's leaving that unattacked. He's leaving that undone. That wasn't his place to do that or just he wasn't ready at that time.
Melektoth: When I saw that and made those connections, it was like I think that's really fascinating, because I do really believe in you have to separate the Book of the Law from the work of Aleister Crowley himself, because the Book of the Law, it was an inspired text. I fully believed he channeled it. There were parts of it he hated for a very long time, and he couldn't come to terms with, but his work has to be seen as separate because it was his own. It was his own ideas. He was a genius really, but it was just his own ideas. For as smart as he was, he was still kind of in the context of the old eon, and he said that himself. People will come later on who were born in the new eon who will see this all completely differently.
Melektoth: But it's hard when you're born in the old eon and you're trying to start this new thing, but your thinking is still rooted in that old way of thinking.
Elinara: It's hard.
Melektoth: So I think that a lot of ... I respect a lot of his work obviously, but I think a lot of it was focused on the light and how to let go of desire and how to merge with the all, and that's all great. But he didn't really focus on the material too much or on the darkness because I think it was unknown to him. He didn't know what to make of it besides he would use it to go against or challenge Christianity in a sense. In a sort of Antinomian, rebellious way he would use it. But he didn't know how darkness could be used in a positive context, not as an oppositional context, if that makes sense.
Melektoth: He was great at deposing things he didn't like, and that's sort of dark, but what is darkness in a positive context? Positive darkness, if you will, I guess. I think he didn't really grasp that. In fact, I think that kind of scared him a little bit. I could be wrong. I'm not an expert of his writings or anything.
Elinara: Sounds good to me.
Melektoth: That makes sense from what I've seen. As the energies of the new eon are carrying themselves out and you have these newer messages, the law of attraction has become very popular since then and a lot of other things that are like that. The idea that you can have what you want and it's okay is now a very popular idea, or it's getting there. I think that is a dark concept. It's a positive expression of darkness. It's not a negative one. We're not opposing anything, but we're positively stating, "I can have what I want and that's okay. The universe will actually support me in getting that." This is a new idea.
Melektoth: I mean a few hundred years ago you would not really see that. I mean you had magic, but it was in the context of connecting spirits so you could receive greater knowledge that you could ascend or evolve spiritually or whatever.
Elinara: But didn't you tell me recently that you wouldn't use magic to get goals?
Melektoth: Well, I'm speaking in the general sense. So when I say magic, personally I don't use rituals-
Elinara: Yeah, that's true.
Melektoth: ... to get goals. But the law of attraction is magic.
Elinara: It is magic. It really is.
Melektoth: Every, and even Crowley did say this, that every thought and every word and every action is magic. Every deliberate thought, word, and action is magic. Let me put that context there. Every deliberate thought, word, and action is magic because you are performing some task with the intention of influencing the world around you, and that's magic. So personally I don't use ritual to get things, just because I don't see the point. But I do use the mind and my knowledge of how the universe works to make things happen all the time. It works. It does work.
Melektoth: This idea is quite new. You wouldn't see that happening 100 years ago or 200 years ago or 300 years ago. You just wouldn't see that happening. It was just you used it for spiritual purposes. Not to say there was no one. I'm not saying not one person ever used magic for personal gain. No. Obviously, they did, but it was just more fringe. But now the law of attraction, I mean I hate The Secret. But from the time of The Secret especially, it's been in the mass consciousness. I think that's the one good thing that it did.
Elinara: Wasn't it since Napoleon Hill's time it started?
Melektoth: Even before him, yeah.
Elinara: 1800s was it?
Melektoth: Late 1800s, yeah.
Elinara: It didn't take that well though.
Melektoth: Yeah. It didn't really take off until The Secret happened. And then now it's like everyone pretty much knows about it, and a lot of people are trying to use it. So it's in the mass consciousness, and so people know about it. People know I can affect my reality. They might not know how to do so, and The Secret kind of watered it down quite a bit, but they know that they can. So again, this idea that you can have what you want, that materialism or material things are okay is an extremely new idea and it's a positive expression of darkness. So that's one way that this has developed. I think that's really positive.
Melektoth: But again, you don't want to focus on darkness to the exclusion of the light. I think this is where a lot of law of attraction people get stuck. I think there are two places they get stuck. Number one is that they pretend that what they're doing is light when it's really not.
Elinara: That's true.
Melektoth: They pretend that, they'll say things like, "This is for the highest good of all," and that kind of thing. I'm just not a believer in that because if it's your true will it really doesn't matter if it's for the highest good of all. Does, let's say, a planet in its orbit worry about what other planets are doing?
Melektoth: No. It just does its thing. If it's in its orbit, it's in its orbit or in Thelema they say, "Every man and every woman is a star." The idea is every star has an orbit, and so one star has an orbit, doesn't worry about what that star over there is doing, what that star over there is doing. No, that's not part of its business. That's not part of its orbit. It only worries about what's in its own orbit, and that's it. If it was worried about anyone else, that would be out of its orbit actually. So it's foolish to think, "This has to be for the highest good of all." No, it doesn't. As long as it's in your path and your orbit, that's all that matters.
Melektoth: But people are still sort of, even though they accept they can have material things, even though they accept that it's okay to have material things and they can manifest that. They still try to justify it like, "Well, I'm going to have money, but it's okay because I'll use it for good things. I'll give to charity. I will do something really positive with it, not just for myself." I've literally seen people say, by the way this is completely false, that, "You can only manifest things that are not self-serving." No, no, no, no. I promise you that's not true. I saw someone, a friend of mine, loosely used, but an acquaintance of mine I guess, would say this, "No, you can only manifest for things that are not self-serving."
Melektoth: I said, "Well, I hate to tell you, but I've gotten vacations. I've gotten computers. I've gotten jobs. I've gotten lots of money, for no other reason than I really wanted them." So I don't know what you want to make of that, but that's what happened. But people still justify. They feel the need to justify, "I want this, but it's okay because I'll use it for a good reason."
Elinara: That drives me nuts.
Melektoth: And people think the universe is going to judge them like, "Well, if I want it for a good reason, then the universe will be more likely to give it to me than if I want it for a bad reason or for a selfish reason." No, that's not true. The universe really does not care.
Elinara: He's living proof.
Melektoth: Yeah. I've manifested lots of things that just were just for whatever and they've happened.
Elinara: It didn't care?
Elinara: Actually I think the universe would rather you be honest with yourself-
Melektoth: Oh yeah, absolutely.
Elinara: ... than going, "Yeah, it's for other people." Oh that's bullshit. And the universe is not going to give you things if you lie to yourself. It just doesn't work like that.
Melektoth: That's just not authentic.
Elinara: No. So why should it help you then, if you're going to do that?
Melektoth: People still have this outdated idea and they're trying to make it light when it's dark. The law of attraction is inherently a dark form of, I guess, magic.
Elinara: Well, yeah. Duh. What else would it be called?
Melektoth: I mean I hesitate to call it black magic. I have in the past, so I mean whatever. I'm still getting comfortable with my terminology, but it's a dark form of magic.
Elinara: Yes. There you go. It's dark magic.
Melektoth: It's dark magic. It's black magic, I guess. I don't know. Whatever. But it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. That's not a bad thing.
Elinara: It could be red magic. Who cares?
Melektoth: It's purple magic.
Elinara: No, it's blue.
Melektoth: It's orange magic.
Elinara: That's too light.
Melektoth: Anyway, it's just it is dark. It's a dark expression of yourself, of life, of existence, and it's okay. That's the first place where people get caught is they try to make what's inherently dark into something light. No, it's dark. You want it because you want it. You're selfish. It's good. Just be selfish and want it and you'll be more likely to get it. Okay, so that's the first thing.
Melektoth: The second thing is not quite the opposite, but a little bit of the opposite, which is they do the law of attraction to the exclusion of all else, which means they don't acknowledge that deeper mystery. I feel like I've beat this horse to death over and over and over again in different contexts. But it's so worth saying because, and this is where the light comes in. Like I said, you need both the light and the dark. The light is the spiritual aspect of it and merging with the all and working with the Tao and the flow of the universe and whatnot. The dark aspect is getting what you want and having the material things. This is why, at first, when I started all this earlier this year I talked a lot about black magic.
Melektoth: I was trying to balance out this perceived imbalance, so I talked about black magic and law of attraction. I think call a spade a spade, I guess. It is a form of black magic. But where my error was at the time was that I saw white magic and black magic as opposites and as irreconcilable. They're not. They're not one and the same thing, but they come together to support one another as, again, the Tao Te Ching says that these opposites support each other. This light and dark has to come together to support one another. Actually, I pulled up the chapter. I'm going to read this chapter because it's so perfect for what I'm talking about. I think it's worth saying.
Melektoth: This is Tao Te Ching, and this is the Stephen Mitchell translation because that's my favorite. It's a short chapter, so I'll read it.
Elinara: What chapter is it?
Melektoth: Chapter two.
Melektoth: "When people see some things as beautiful, other things become ugly. When people see some things as good, other things become bad. Being and non-being create each other. Difficult and easy support each other. Long and short define each other. High and low depend on each other. Before and after follow each other. Therefore, the master acts without doing anything and teaches without saying anything. Things arise and she lets them come. Things disappear and she lets them go. She has but doesn't possess, acts but doesn't expect. When her work is done she forgets it. That is why it lasts forever."
Melektoth: The parts about all the opposites, short and long, high and low, and difficult and easy, and being and non-being, this is what we work with. They support and define each other. So white and black magic or light and dark, or however you want to see them, support each other. When people are all for the light and not the dark, they lose out. They suffer in life. Maybe they don't have the things they want. It's almost a form of escapism, "I can go off and meditate or I can go in a cave somewhere," metaphorically speaking or, "I can renounce the world and just unite with the all." But if you just focus on the darkness, you have the same problem. "I want all these material things."
Melektoth: Well, without the light you don't have the why of it. You don't have the purpose. It's like, "I want money. I want fame. I want power. I want a good career. I want a relationship. I want this house. I want this car. I want, want, want, want, want." Okay, fine. But why? What will you have when you have these things? I'm not saying you can't or shouldn't have these things, but what will you have when you have them, and what do you have even before you have them? Because if you don't recognize what you have even before you have them, you can't them. It's really hard. So a lot of people run into this brick wall where they think, "I don't know. I need the money to be happy. I need the relationship to be happy. I need the job to be happy."
Melektoth: They don't see what's beyond all of that. I was talking about in the Circle of Darkness group. We had a private call the other day and I was talking about this. I'll mention this in the podcast too because I think it's worth saying. There's an author, Genevieve Davis. I will link to her book. Her first book is called Becoming Magic. It's a trilogy of sorts, three-book series. I think it's Becoming Magic, Doing Magic, and Advanced Magic, I think is what they are. She talks about magic, but it's really the law of attraction. She just likes to call it magic. It's great. It's a great book or series of books. It's awesome. It really is very true in how she approaches it. I think maybe a tad bit simplistic than what I would teach, but it's all true.
Melektoth: But several years later, I think just last year maybe or I don't remember when-
Elinara: Yeah. She wrote another one.
Melektoth: She wrote a book called Becoming Genevieve. Genevieve Davis is a pseudonym she used, but this Becoming Genevieve was sort of an autobiography and that sounds boring. Why would I care about that? But what it was was where she said, "Yeah, all the other books were true and I got all the stuff I wanted." Primarily it was money and I think a relationship, but primarily money. She became a millionaire. She was super successful. She was a successful author, successful businessperson, all the stuff she wanted to be, and then she was hit with just chronic depression. She said, "Why? Why after I have all these things would I feel depressed? I have the money. I have the relationship. I have everything I want. I'm living a great life. Why would I feel depressed?"
Melektoth: She realized that her life up to that point had been defined by struggle and seeking and wanting, and that once she had, she didn't know what to do. She didn't know what the point of life was. She didn't know what her purpose in life was. What was she supposed to do? What was all this for? People ignore this part of the process. I don't want to go too far there because it goes beyond our topic a little bit, but she got really depressed because she just didn't know what to do now. What's next? I have everything, now what? What's the point? So she started to go into more, I don't want to give it away, but more spirituality and mystery and discovering those deeper things. For her, it was non-duality.
Melektoth: It was a light expression. It was an expression of light. For me, I'm not going to say the exactly identical experience, but it was similar where I did have a lot of the things I wanted, not everything like she did, but a lot of it but still wasn't happy. I was like, "Okay, there's something missing." So I started exploring the light more and it led me to Thelema and that was my expression. But-
Elinara: It is your expression.
Melektoth: It is my expression, yeah, but when I found it, I'm saying. I think this is the thing that really catches people up is they hear the message, "You can have what you want," and they say, "Everything that's been wrong in my life is because I have wanted something that I didn't have." This is the sort of, I'm sorry to insult but, infantile notion that people have about the source of suffering. "I suffer because I don't have enough." Not true, but you can test that theory. But the thing is, one of two things will happen when they start trying to get stuff. Either, number one, they will struggle because they don't have anything good to focus on in the meantime.
Melektoth: It's like, "Well, this money is that's what I want. That's what I need to be happy. So how can I possibly be happy ... How can you tell me you can have what your want but, by the way, you have to be happy before you can get it? Well, how could I be happy?" The darkness doesn't tell you how you can be happy. It just says, "You can have what you want." Because it's just one-half of the equation. It's not supposed to tell you that. That's the light's job. That's the first thing, they can at least struggle. They can't manifest because they don't know how to be happy without the thing. Or in my case, or in Genevieve's case, they get the thing, all the things or most of the things, and then there's an emptiness. Now what? What's the meaning of all of this? Why did I do this?
Elinara: Now you accept Jesus Christ. I'm sorry. I couldn't not say that.
Melektoth: I know.
Elinara: Because you said emptiness, so I had to do it. I had to.
Melektoth: Yes, yes, yes. I know. Our ex-Christian weighs in.
Elinara: I'm sorry. Sorry, guys.
Melektoth: But you do. You can accept the light, I guess.
Elinara: Sure. There you go.
Melektoth: But people see this as a polarity, so they'll, "All that was just empty desire." That's, again, the risk because, "All that was empty desire. Now I see the light and now I'm just going to be one with the all." No. It was valid that you wanted what you wanted, but you just didn't see the greater context of it. So that's where the light and the dark balance out each other. I think that's what the Book of the Law was pointing to when it said basically there were two parts of the equation. Crowley had one and not so much of the other. But you have to have both in order to really just be a successful, well-rounded, happy person.
Melektoth: It's okay to have the money and whatever you want, the relationship, and the job, and the experiences, and the house, and the car, and whatnot. But there's also the light. Bringing this back around, that's what we have to recognize. Okay, darkness is here. Whether you're uncomfortable with it or whether it's okay to you, I think you should ask yourself, "What does darkness mean to me in my life? What does this represent for me? How am I living darkness, not just light." Most people are already living pretty light, so most people don't really need help in that regard. If you do, then whatever. Most people though, it's sort of drilled into them from a young age.
Melektoth: "Be a good person. Be selfless. Care for others. Desire the best for everyone, blah blah blah blah blah." Great. But the selfish, dark aspect of it, what's that mean for you? This is where darkness comes in. How are you going to express that in your life? Because if you don't have both, you will be unhappy. Either you'll feel just overextended because you're trying to help others and you don't take care of yourself or your own needs, or you just feel ungrounded because you're so up in the clouds. "I'm just going to meditate and merge with the all or with God or with the universe and nothing else matters. Desire is bad." Whatever. You're not going to be grounded.
Melektoth: Where does darkness, what message does darkness have for you? That's what I would be asking myself. How do I feel about it? I think this is becoming more and more in the global consciousness now with these shows like I mentioned and demons are not so bad after all. Lucifer's actually okay. It's hard. It's a bit of metaphor, but it's also a bit of reality. I mean there are these spirits. There is a being called Lucifer, but it's also representational, where it's like, what do these ideas or these beings or these concepts represent for you? How can you relate that to your own life?
Melektoth: That's what I would look at. Again, it's just how is darkness expressing itself? Or how can I express it more in my life? How can I balance this equation? That's what I've been doing in my own life is, again, I overbalanced a little bit towards darkness for a while. It's like, "Dark Ascent, all dark." Then it was like, "Wait a second. But the light is there too. That's necessary. Actually there's not such a huge difference as people think. So let's bring them together." That's really where I've been lately and trying to express that balance. So hopefully that helps. I think it's an important message.
Melektoth: I'd love to see how that plays out for you. So you can come over and see the show notes and start the discussion on the website. You can come over to darkascent.org/da021 to do that. I'd love to hear about what your experience has been or what your thoughts are about this. Also I do go a lot deeper with all of this in the Circle of Darkness newsletter. So if you would like to check that out, it's a monthly newsletter and goes far, far deeper. Oh gosh. This past one in last month was a lot longer than usual, 20 pages. Usually it's about 16 pages. It just depends how prolific I'm feeling. It'll be time for July's here pretty soon. If you want to sign up for that, you can go to darkascent.org/circle to check out the Circle of Darkness. So I think-
Elinara: Do it. It's fun.
Melektoth: Yeah. It is fun. Thank you for joining us. We are here every two weeks now, so we will see you hopefully in another two weeks for another episode of the Dark Ascent Podcast. With that, I hope you have a wonderful two weeks. Bye everyone.
Melektoth: Love is the law, love under will.
In This Episode
- Why hearing “I Love Lucifer” took Melektoth by complete surprise.
- From historical steps toward acceptance to mainstream media popularizing dark beings.
- The trend you cannot ignore.
- The two places in which Law of Attraction followers get stuck.
I think it’s intriguing because I don’t think we would have seen this, like I said, even a few decades ago
I had been led astray by Satan and thought I had lost the truth
The old Aeon was all about Good and Evil, and this battle between Good and Evil
Any kind of magick for material purposes was sort of seen as Black Magick and evil
You can have what you want and it’s okay is now a very popular idea
The Darkness doesn’t tell you how you can be happy
Mentioned in This Episode
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